What are the results of the summer, particularly for the new Paris-Marseille service?
Fabrice Toledano - We had a very positive summer. Firstly, on the operational side, we launched the line Paris-Marseille and added a frequency on Paris-Lyon before the summer period. In terms of results, too, the summer was strong, particularly in June and July, with passenger numbers already between 70 and 75% on our Paris-Marseille trains, and over 80% on the Paris-Milan service that reopened last April. Lastly, on the Paris-Lyon route, the occupancy rate has risen sharply compared with the summer of 2024.
What are your traffic forecasts for 2025?
Fabrice Toledano - The addition of 5 frequencies on the Paris-Lyon route will only be effective on 14 December for sales that have been open since 15 September. The increase in passenger numbers following this increase in frequencies will not be visible until 2026. However, the first few months of the year have been marked by a 14% fill rate increase. The ambition is to double the number of passengers, mainly due to the opening of the Paris-Marseille service in June with 4 return trips per day and growth on other routes. In 2024, Trenitalia carried around 1 million passengers. The strong growth of 40% on the Paris-Lyon route compared with 2023 had partly offset the discontinuation of the Paris-Milan route.
Do you already have plans to increase capacity on the Paris-Marseille route?
Fabrice Toledano - Trenitalia launched this route on 15 June, but in the coming months the focus will be on the Paris-Lyon service, where our priority is to increase traffic. With 14 return trips per day, 11 between Paris-Lyon and Part-Dieu stations and 3 on Paris-Lyon Saint-Exupéry, we will now be providing more than a third of the service between these two cities, illustrating the shift Trenitalia has made towards a strong and lasting presence on this strategic route. We are thus offering a high number of frequencies to business travellers. Meanwhile, on the Paris-Marseille route, we can use multiple units when necessary to meet high demand, as was the case over the weekend of 30 August.
Why don't all the Paris-Marseille trains stop at Lyon Saint-Exupéry station, or even at other stations on the line?
Fabrice Toledano - It's true, of the 8 daily Paris-Marseille trains, 1 return does not serve Lyon St Exupéry and Avignon. Despite our requests, we have not managed to obtain these stops on this train from SNCF Réseau. This anomaly will be corrected on 14 December. The 4 Paris-Marseille return trips will then all serve Lyon, Avignon TGV and Aix-en-Provence TGV. Depending on the timetable and expected customer profiles, we are currently adapting the stop to either Lyon-Saint-Exupéry or Lyon-Part-Dieu, but all trains will soon be passing through Lyon.
What is the current status of your company agreements?
Fabrice Toledano - You should know that we have already 50% of business customers on our trains which proves that we have the right offering and services. We are at the beginning of the distribution dynamic. In April, Trenitalia France signed an agreement with Amadeus, a major BtoB technology player with its own distribution platform. We then sign contracts with networks, agencies... Trainline is also helping us to market our services to business and leisure passengers. Distribution is important with the reinforcement of Paris-Lyon because Increasing capacity is good, but filling the trains is better..
Your detractors often point out the size of your losses, with a figure of €68m in 2024...
Fabrice Toledano - Profitability is unattainable in the first few years. The more we invest in our development, with, for example, a greater number of trains, the more we can achieve profitability. Frecciarossa from 5 to 9, the more we spend. And Trenitalia France is clearly in a development phase at the moment. When we move into a stabilisation phase, the profitability objective will become a priority.
